Thursday, September 10, 2009

No Joe, you lie.

As you might guess, I have some things to say about Obama's speech and the uproar surrounding it.

First of all, overall I really liked what Obama had to say (big shock). Yes, it had a lot of talking points, but I also think he effectively called out the lies for what they are. Obviously, some aspects of the Democrats' plan may be up for debate (the long-term costs, for example), but no one with a brain can deny that powerful parts of the opposition are in fact spreading downright lies. For example, "Death panels" = bullshit (made up by Sarah Palin, no less). And the myth that caused the whole Joe Wilson hoopla, that the new plan will cover illegal immigrants, is an out-an-out lie. Any nonpartisan fact check website will show that it is a lie.

I loved that Obama pointed out that certain Republicans care much more about bringing down Obama than about reforming anything. Obviously not all, or even a majority of Republicans, think this way, but a lot of loud ones do, and you could see them pouting when Obama called them out. I actually wish Obama had been a little more forceful.

I also wish otherwise smart people with an understanding of logical fallacies would realize that "government-run insurance" is not the same thing as "government-run heath care."

As for Joe Wilson: this was an outrageous, offensive, disrespectful outburst. The end. Drop it.

But man, I loved Nancy Pelosi's shocked schoolteacher look.

6 Comments:

At 8:19 PM, Blogger P "N" K posited...

Obviously Palin is going for maximum shock value, but I don't see how anyone can think some form of healthcare rationing is a farfetched idea. It's not, and it occurs elsewhere as a natural extension of the governmental need to cut costs where they can be cut. And, of course, costs are going to have to be cut. This thing is racking up a trillion bucks. I've said it before...I have not much of a leg to stand on when it comes to deficit spending. Believe me, I know. But between 800 billion to 'save' the economy (only to see the UE rate climb to 10% anyway), 900 billion - as a floor - for this...it's a good thing you guys can get to rescinding tax cuts b/c the money has to come from somewhere.

 
At 8:24 PM, Blogger P "N" K posited...

As for Joe Wilson, it absolutely reminded me of some kid calling the principal a liar during assembly. It was crass. Frankly, it probably sums up SC nicely. To be honest though, I think Britian has this more right than we do. We filibuster in the senate, and the classic example is LBJ reading from a phonebook or something. Meanwhile, once a week the HoC guys get to roast the PM over the coals. I realize that Obama is Head of State, not just Head of Gov. like the PM is and I realize they're a parliament, we're not, etc. etc. But maybe somebody would actually say what they're thinking instead of lying through their teeth. Like Obama. I would appreciate the guy a lot more if he came out and said, 'hey, I'm a very progressive liberal. I trust government more than private enterprise, and I'm right.' It's the truth, but he won't say it, because of politics. Which is too damn bad.

 
At 8:30 PM, Blogger P "N" K posited...

And to complete my three volume set of blog comments...

"I also wish otherwise smart people with an understanding of logical fallacies would realize that "government-run insurance" is not the same thing as "government-run heath care."

Our point is, Dub, that government run insurance inevitably leads to government run health care. You'll sigh, roll your eyes, and curse conservative idiocy. That's fine. But once the ball gets rolling, it never does seem to stop.

 
At 8:45 PM, Blogger CoachDub posited...

Good points. Parker, but . . .
I don't see how anyone can think some form of healthcare rationing is a farfetched idea. It's not, and it occurs elsewhere as a natural extension of the governmental need to cut costs where they can be cut.

Private insurance companies make health care decisions for us every second of the day, and their motive is profit. People act as if people with private health insurance have all of their decisions made by the doctor and themselves.

 
At 9:48 PM, Blogger P "N" K posited...

I will simply have to disagree, strongly, that a private insurance company making decisions for the sake of their profits -- which clearly does happen -- is in any way on the same scale as a governmental board. Case in point, gov't spending accounts for 46% of all healthcare expenditures via medicare/caid and that's currently, not after a government-run system is created.

It seems to me that probably 90% of us can agree something needs to be done. I think so. But like just about every fiscal argument between conservatives and liberals, it comes down to central authority v. markets. Are markets perfect? Duh, no. Thanks Bernie Madoff, for proving this. However, if you absolutely, positively, need to get better, you want to be here. America does by far the most R&D work developing new medicines, especially cancer drugs, and in America you don't have to wait months for treatment which occurs more than rarely in nations like Britain and Canada. As with just about everything it all comes down to cost. Lower costs --> more affordable healthcare coverage --> 30 million uninsured people drops and the coverage for everyone else improves. The number of things that can be done to cut costs without centralizing healthcare are legion. It's not just tort reform, although that's a start. Open up the healthcare market further than statewide. The way it is now is ridiculous. I can buy a products from Asia off Ebay, and I can't shop around for a more cost-effective policy aside from ones licensed in MN. There are over 1300 individual companies providing health insurance in this country, including hundreds operating in other states. No one can convince me that they can't provide a viable market if given the opportunity. Another option is that employers are currently allowed in almost all cases to deduct healthcare purchases for tax purposes. Let individuals do this too. That's three things, and there are more.

 
At 9:54 PM, Blogger PBear posited...

Hillary and Nancy were wearing matching outfits. I'm assuming the cat fight happened off camera.

 

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